Thread: How much would the community benefit from a mass guide?

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  1. #41  
    How much would the community benefit from a mass guide?



    Scu11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrium View Post
    Cbf to reply to each statement to be honest with you.
    Ok I'll take that as "you can't" not you "can't be bothered".



    You point out that I'm "reinventing the wheel for no reason" and that I'll "use the sources for reference"; though, if I want to make a base more appropriate for my preferences, what's stopping me from developing my own framework, so that I learn in the process?
    Nothings wrong with that, but don't mask it with the bullshit reason that you're doing it to teach others when you're doing it to learn yourself.



    It's a simple project, it'll help people, and I'm not sure why you're mindlessly nitpicking through the thread.
    I 'nitpicked' (lol) one part, that being you starting again from scratch. I told you (and many others agree) that your efforts would be better spent using an existing base, but feel free to misconstrue that as nitpicking.



    Most of your comments are so irrelevant, and quite frankly invalid.
    It's just a shame that you can't explain how.



    I've already pointed out that I'm developing this project because I want to teach people how to use a decent base,
    You're going to teach people a base, so your first thing to do is create yet another one that is inevitably going to end up worse or the same as things we already have.



    and you still revolve back to the point that I'm going to release a new source that people will continue to not know how to use. Please, pay some attention.
    I find it ironic that you have 'pay some attention' at the end of this sentence, because I never actually once said people "won't know how to use it", I said people wont use it. Never did I say the reason for that would be lack of knowledge, if you had spent more than two minutes assessing the RSPS scene you'd realise it's not a lack of knowledge but a lack of willpower that stops people from bothering with better bases.



    This project will include full documentation and will include guides for every step. I certainly hope you're aware of that by now, as it's been stated several times.
    It's almost like I didn't just say in my previous post "documenting yet another scratch framework is rather pointless when we have adequately documented bases already released". Please, read my posts before claiming I'm unaware of something.



    Side Note: I've not said that anyone else is arguing. You're highly irritating, and filling my thread with junk.
    Oh cool, it's just a shame that someone stated the exact same thing as me in the post right below mine and you've only got an issue with mine for some reason.



    In my opinion, you've not stated a single helpful comment, though you have stated your opinion. That being said, get off the thread.
    No I won't get off the thread, and you don't decide who can and can't reply to a discussion.



    The project is in development, and as I said, if you don't want to see it, ignore it.
    Trust me I will ignore it.

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  2. #42  
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    clem585's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scu11 View Post
    Ok I'll take that as "you can't" not you "can't be bothered".





    Nothings wrong with that, but don't mask it with the bullshit reason that you're doing it to teach others when you're doing it to learn yourself.





    I 'nitpicked' (lol) one part, that being you starting again from scratch. I told you (and many others agree) that your efforts would be better spent using an existing base, but feel free to misconstrue that as nitpicking.





    It's just a shame that you can't explain how.





    You're going to teach people a base, so your first thing to do is create yet another one that is inevitably going to end up worse or the same as things we already have.





    I find it ironic that you have 'pay some attention' at the end of this sentence, because I never actually once said people "won't know how to use it", I said people wont use it. Never did I say the reason for that would be lack of knowledge, if you had spent more than two minutes assessing the RSPS scene you'd realise it's not a lack of knowledge but a lack of willpower that stops people from bothering with better bases.





    It's almost like I didn't just say in my previous post "documenting yet another scratch framework is rather pointless when we have adequately documented bases already released". Please, read my posts before claiming I'm unaware of something.





    Oh cool, it's just a shame that someone stated the exact same thing as me in the post right below mine and you've only got an issue with mine for some reason.





    No I won't get off the thread, and you don't decide who can and can't reply to a discussion.





    Trust me I will ignore it.
    You said earlier that there was alot of better frameworks and that we should be using them instead. I've been there for a year or so and never thought someone would've released one in the first place since Dkk's one was released under special circumstances. Perhaps the problem with leaches is the fact that none of these frameworks are pinned to the download board. I doubt it would be heavily leached since leachers wouldn't be able to adapt/add it to their server but I could be wrong. Also, are any of these frameworks done at 100% just like Matrix is(despite the issues)? People might not be using them because it's too time conssuming to finish already started frameworks if they're never completly finished.
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  3. #43  
    Registered Member Atrium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clem585 View Post
    You said earlier that there was alot of better frameworks and that we should be using them instead. I've been there for a year or so and never thought someone would've released one in the first place since Dkk's one was released under special circumstances. Perhaps the problem with leaches is the fact that none of these frameworks are pinned to the download board. I doubt it would be heavily leached since leachers wouldn't be able to adapt/add it to their server but I could be wrong. Also, are any of these frameworks done at 100% just like Matrix is(despite the issues)? People might not be using them because it's too time conssuming to finish already started frameworks if they're never completly finished.
    My project will be released when it is ready for content. Basically, it'll have a skill system, but you get to code in the skills. That idea will be the same for other things. i.e., quests, dialogue, etc.
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  4. #44  
    How much would the community benefit from a mass guide?



    Scu11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clem585 View Post
    Also, are any of these frameworks done at 100% just like Matrix is(despite the issues)? People might not be using them because it's too time conssuming to finish already started frameworks if they're never completly finished.
    Matrix isn't even close to '100%' in any regard so...

    And yeah it's time consuming, but starting again from scratch isn't any faster lol.

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  5. #45  
    Registered Member Earthhhh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrium View Post
    If I made a wiki, other people could contribute wrong / potentially incorrect information, and would defeat the purpose of the project itself. Also, I want to make the source code easier to read than some recent sources. Overall, other people contributing sounds like a small chance at the moment.
    The same thing could be said about any wiki as a whole. Sure people could put wrong or incorrect information, but it can be corrected in seconds by other people. Pages can also be protected or even have to be approved before changes appear.

    As a side note, most people would probably just copy character for character and do a straight copy anyway. Most won't attempt to learn a thing. It's like copying notes in school. You don't learn a thing.

    One more thing, I only read the first page of this thread, nothing more.
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  6. #46  
    Registered Member Atrium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scu11 View Post
    And yeah it's time consuming, but starting again from scratch isn't any faster lol.
    Starting from scratch could provide a more worthy learning experience. That's my goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Earthhhh View Post
    The same thing could be said about any wiki as a whole. Sure people could put wrong or incorrect information, but it can be corrected in seconds by other people. Pages can also be protected or even have to be approved before changes appear.
    This is true, but we have mopar's wiki, and hardly anyone utilizes it, nor do we edit it. The 666 revision has a decent amount of information documented, but that's about it. By creating a wiki, I could be simply resetting the cycle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Earthhhh View Post
    As a side note, most people would probably just copy character for character and do a straight copy anyway. Most won't attempt to learn a thing. It's like copying notes in school. You don't learn a thing.
    If someone chooses to copy word for word, I can't do much about it. If I write this guide, I do know that a few people will use it wisely. If I help even 2 people, I'm learning for myself also, and the time spent was well worth it.
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  7. #47  
    Registered Member Taylor Moon's Avatar
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    There's not necesarily a way to build a framework. Server frameworks are built to personal preference, the main skills of creating a framework are design creativity, systematic functionality, fluency, simplicity, Runescape protocol knowledge and client knowledge in general, and of course programming experience. These are all things that are practiced just by programming various things from scratch. As for creating a framework, that's usually something you learn along the way, with examples, articles, videos, editing, and documentation. I myself have written protocol articles on RS wiki. Not to mention the other articles, there and on R-S.

    I personally learned through trial and error, many unsuccessful frameworks is a good indicator that you're learning and improving. Looking through other developer's work, there are some very skilled programmers on R-S. I've done RSPS for 4 or 5 years and it's just a matter of just learning a long the way. Although, RSPS servers have a lot of components that should be learned before jumping right in, like I/O buffers, networking, refactoring, threads, etc.
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  9. #48  
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    I don't think I approve of this idea. I think the core concept is flawed: progress should be made by combining the minds of the entire community into one pool of thought, but your approach is dependent on only *you* creating the content which should guide the entire community of RSPS developers as a whole. To be honest, if someone were to kick off the development of a publicly-administrated Wiki page for RSPS, and actually got people who are experienced to contribute, it would be absolutely invaluable. However, I fear that you are attempting to tackle an extremely difficult task of covering such a broad spectrum of information. Even if someone were a veteran trying to accomplish this, it would be near impossible to complete in a reasonable amount of time, while still providing accurate, useful information in a presentable way. I do appreciate that you have a desire to contribute so heavily to the community, but I think that there is an excellent reason why nobody has tried to do what you want to do: it just isn't feasible.

    Ultimately, I feel the community would benefit the absolute most from the work of someone to pool resources together provided by the community in these "snippets" into neat, concise categories. This way, if someone were to try creating a project, they would be able to isolate information relevant to that project, rather than needing to filter through other, often useless, resources spread through the forums and whichever other resources there are on the web.
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  10. #49  
    Registered Member Atrium's Avatar
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    Erm... this was posted a little while ago, but I'd suppose I'm still open to feedback.

    Quote Originally Posted by cascading-style View Post
    To be honest, if someone were to kick off the development of a publicly-administrated Wiki page for RSPS, and actually got people who are experienced to contribute, it would be absolutely invaluable.
    This is exactly what you've just described, except it's been left in the dark for such a long time. If someone wants to update it, they could surely do that. However, it's nearly a guarantee that half of the site wouldn't understand how to build a server with the information given on a website like this. The goal of the project was to explain things in code as I went along.

    Quote Originally Posted by cascading-style View Post
    Even if someone were a veteran trying to accomplish this, it would be near impossible to complete in a reasonable amount of time, while still providing accurate, useful information in a presentable way. I do appreciate that you have a desire to contribute so heavily to the community, but I think that there is an excellent reason why nobody has tried to do what you want to do: it just isn't feasible.
    This is false. Take a look at http://www.rune-server.org/runescape...virtuers3.html for instance. Looks decently updated to me. I know Kyle, and his code looks great, and is 'presentable', so I don't know where you've gotten the assumption that an RS3 server is 'not feasible' from.

    Quote Originally Posted by cascading-style View Post
    Ultimately, I feel the community would benefit the absolute most from the work of someone to pool resources together provided by the community in these "snippets" into neat, concise categories. This way, if someone were to try creating a project, they would be able to isolate information relevant to that project, rather than needing to filter through other, often useless, resources spread through the forums and whichever other resources there are on the web.
    Yes, because if you take a look at the snippet section, there are many people who know exactly what they're doing when it comes to reading a snippet. Half the time, the 'snippets' that are released, could be written better in the first place.

    My apologies if this came off as snippy or pissy, just stating a few facts of the matter, and expressing my viewpoint. Regardless, I've taken a break from RuneScape. I'm working on a 2D server at the moment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrium View Post
    Erm... this was posted a little while ago, but I'd suppose I'm still open to feedback.



    This is exactly what you've just described, except it's been left in the dark for such a long time. If someone wants to update it, they could surely do that. However, it's nearly a guarantee that half of the site wouldn't understand how to build a server with the information given on a website like this. The goal of the project was to explain things in code as I went along.



    This is false. Take a look at http://www.rune-server.org/runescape...virtuers3.html for instance. Looks decently updated to me. I know Kyle, and his code looks great, and is 'presentable', so I don't know where you've gotten the assumption that an RS3 server is 'not feasible' from.



    Yes, because if you take a look at the snippet section, there are many people who know exactly what they're doing when it comes to reading a snippet. Half the time, the 'snippets' that are released, could be written better in the first place.

    My apologies if this came off as snippy or pissy, just stating a few facts of the matter, and expressing my viewpoint. Regardless, I've taken a break from RuneScape. I'm working on a 2D server at the moment.
    Shit, my bad. I was browsing this thread and went into it noticing it was a month old, but I completely forgot.
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